Buried Women Still Sing
Finding the Story of "Invisible" Women like Kathy Hoppe in our All the Buried Women miniseries
Kathy Hoppe, a woman I met first through angry letters written about her ordination by SBC [Southern Baptist Convention] pastors in the early 1980s, had just entered our recording room. I had met Kathy online after posting about my initial findings in 2023, and she had agreed to come and talk with us for our new miniseries podcast.
For those of you who do not know, Savannah Locke (who at the time worked for The Bible for Normal People) had reached out to me (also in 2023) about creating a miniseries podcast based on documents in the SBC archives. You can listen to her describe this here (as well as us both talk about creating the podcast here).
Neither of us had created a podcast miniseries before, much less planned interview sessions or written a podcast script. Honestly, given that the entire production of the podcast was in Savannah’s house by volunteer labor (Savannah, her husband Todd, and me, primarily, but also see our show notes for those who helped us along the way), it is incredible how All the Buried Women has soared to the top charts and held its own against professional productions.
But it has. I think my favorite moment was when I saw it rise above Al Mohler’s podcast in the ratings chart.
Even with our limited podcast-writing experience, when Kathy Hoppe spoke those words, “I thought I was invisible,” the story coalesced. I remember meeting Savannah’s eyes. We weren’t just telling about documents hidden in the SBC archives; we were telling the life stories of women like Kathy Hoppe. Women whose voices had been drowned out by the noise of the fundamentalist take-over of the SBC; overpowered by the voices of men like Paul Pressler and Paige Patterson; and literally had their microphones turned off when they tried to speak out.
I am sure that many of you are familiar with narrative podcasts. I can’t speak for the genre. But I can tell you that All the Buried Women tells a story straight from historical evidence. Not only can you find many of the sources cited in my new book, Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman’s Path to Ministry, but you can also follow the trail of evidence Savannah and I gathered to tell these stories in the transcripts of each podcast. It was very important to us to not only tell the story well, but to tell it accurately too. In fact, Savannah and I were fact checking up until the very last moment.
For example, perhaps you are interested in Fabiola, the saint whose image inspired the cover art for the series. You will have to wait till episode 5 to see why she is so relevant, but you can learn about who Fabiola is and the sources connected to her in our transcript footnotes for episode one. Each of our episodes will have the full transcript with footnotes posted on The Bible for Normal People’s website (our partner for the series).
Moreover, Savannah and I have been attempting to answer questions from listeners. If you follow our instagram, you will see Savannah asking for questions and answering them to the best of our ability. I also received a question from a listener regarding First Baptist Church of Jackson Mississippi. Where is the evidence, the listener asked, about how the church “physically barred from entering or forcibly removed from the sanctuary when” black people attempted to worship their during the Civil Rights Movement (see episode one). Somehow I missed footnoting this, so here is the footnote: See Elaine Allen Lechtreck, Southern White Ministers and the Civil Rights Movement (University of Mississippi, 2018), pp. 97-98. 27 Freedom Riders were also jailed in Jackson for attempting to use segregated bus facilities. See also similar incidents at other churches like FBC Oxford, Mississippi.
In short, All the Buried Women tells a “riveting story” (as one reviewer noted). But rather than a story we ‘created,’ it is a story we really did find buried in the archives.
Episode 1, George Orwell Warned Us About 1984, and Episode 2, The Invisible Woman, have already released. Episode 3, Loopholes, will release this Thursday.
Can't wait for episode 3!
When y'all spoke at the end of the 3rd episode about women who left the denomination, the tears just flowed. As a PK of SBC Senior I was deterred from seminary but eventually left the denomination that raised me- to serve as a minister in the Christian tradition church.
Now, after two decades, I have had to watch women on team be stripped of their titles by former SBC pastors who are now serving in these churches as they return these once affirming churches, back to their roots of Complementarianism. These teachings at conferences, podcasts and resources are influencing other denominations to these interpretations of scriptures to exclude women from leadership.
Confession:
I also had to address my own ignorance in having NO idea that there are Baptist Women communities FOR women in ministry. My own childhood experiences with women's groups, kept me from learning that there are women that are obedient to the callings on their life by God AND are Baptist.